Unconventional is one way to describe Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan. Even before his surprise announcement that he’s running for governor as an independent, Duggan helped lead with vision and a relentless determination. From vibrant parks and commercial growth to major healthcare expansion and job creation, the city is rising. In this episode, you’ll learn how Duggan balanced business growth with neighborhood renewal, ensuring Detroiters benefit first.
Unconventional is one way to describe Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan. Even before his surprise announcement that he’s running for governor as an independent, Duggan helped lead with vision and a relentless determination. From vibrant parks and commercial growth to major healthcare expansion and job creation, the city is rising. In this episode, you’ll learn how Duggan balanced business growth with neighborhood renewal, ensuring Detroiters benefit first.
1:58- Mayor Mike Duggan reflects on the professionalism of city council meetings compared to his past experiences.
2:55- Duggan talks about revitalizing the city parks
4:09- Duggan discusses the balance between business needs and neighborhood development, using the Stellantis auto plant as an example.
5:55- How the city prioritized investing in healthcare
8:13- The power of partnerships in reshaping Detroit
9:26- Duggan talks about the city's efforts to address homelessness, including building affordable housing and providing shelter beds.
10:59- Duggan shares a story about James White's business plan for a real-time crime center, emphasizing the need for metrics in crime reduction.
12:37- Duggan highlights his partnership with Detroit City Council and the shift from blaming others to constructive problem-solving.
14:39- Duggan shares a personal anecdote about waiting at a Detroit restaurant, highlighting the city's popularity.
15:24- Bob and the Mayor discuss the challenges and opportunities of running for governor as an independent.
18:15- Duggan shares his positive experiences at airports, where people from across the state have shown support for his independent candidacy.
20:17- Bob reflects on the conversation with Mayor Duggan, and on the importance of taking a long-term view and seizing opportunities for positive change.
Mayor Mike Duggan 00:00
He says, Well, you're the mayor. I said, I'm not cutting in front of all these people. Okay, that's not a good way to do it. And he couldn't believe that on a Monday night at a Detroit Restaurant, you had to wait to get in, but it's a nice problem. I was perfectly happy to sit at the bar for a half hour and smile at the crowds that were here.
Bob Riney 00:17
Welcome to The BOBcast. I'm your host, Bob Riney, President and CEO of Henry Ford Health, and I am thrilled to have you joining us today. The BOBcast is where Detroit's future comes into view. It is where you'll hear the big ideas, bold voices and crucial conversations that are shaping our city, our region, and beyond real and unapologetically focused on creating a stronger, more vibrant future. With grit and grace, this podcast introduces you to the relentless visionaries who are driving change and tackling some of the biggest challenges we face today. Joining me on today's episode is Detroit's Mayor Mike Duggan, who is leading our great city through this era of incredible transformation and growth. Mike, thank you so much for being on The BOBcast.
Mayor Mike Duggan 01:08
Well, that's great, yeah, if you want to see the future of Detroit, I just experienced it after getting off at Lodge at Grand Boulevard and trying to navigate all the construction going on between Henry Ford and Michigan State, very excited.
Bob Riney 01:21
You know, I tell people that I'm starting to get some complaints about the traffic and the construction, and I smile because that means it's real, and looking at the cranes in the sky every day is just something that I know for both of us is incredibly exciting. Well, you made an announcement recently that you've decided that this term is going to be your last term as mayor, and you will be running for governor as an independent candidate. We'll get into that shortly. As you reflect on being mayor, I'd really be interested in what are the things that brought you the most personal joy.
Mayor Mike Duggan 01:58
I think back to the city council meetings before I got elected, the screaming and the yelling and the embarrassment.
City Council meeting 02:07
I have the floor president pro tem, I don't want to hear you anymore. I mean, you don't have to hear me. We don't have to hear you. Then be quiet, because I'm speaking.
Mayor Mike Duggan 02:13
And I look today at the professionalism of what's happening, and I think about the 275 parks that weren't cut at all the summer of 2013 and that grass was four feet high and the kids couldn't use them. And now see the beautiful parks. I love driving the city Saturdays and Sundays, so I think people see the difference in the quality of life, and that brings a lot of satisfaction.
Bob Riney 02:35
Well, I couldn't agree more, as someone who drives through all the different segments of our city, seeing the revitalization of parks and seeing young families using those parks, it just breathes so much energy and so much hope, and people see that, and they think this is a neighborhood I want to be in.
Mayor Mike Duggan 02:55
We stopped talking about blight three or four years ago and just talked about building beauty, and the whole administration has embraced it. And you can look now at Rosa Parks and East Warren, and we had those commercial corridors that were boarded up and looked hopeless, and now we've rebuilt the beautiful streetscapes, and business is moving in. In fact, I just opened a business that was a Motor City Match winner right around the corner for you on Woodward. It's a Filipino bakery.
Motor City match winner 03:23
I am a first generation Filipino American, and I never thought I would be here doing this. And this was the dream my parents...
Mayor Mike Duggan 03:31
And on both sides of it are two other businesses that opened as Motor City match winners, and we pulled the plywood off, the gates off, and now Woodward and Grand Boulevard is a vibrant corridor. You remember what it was like 10 years ago. You didn't want to walk down there in the middle of the day, and now it's a center of commerce. These kinds of things, you know, are really exciting.
Bob Riney 03:52
You've done an amazing job, from my perspective, at balancing the needs of the business community and the downtown and midtown corridor with the needs of the neighborhoods. Talk to me a little bit about how you've made sure that you maintain that balance and how you approach that.
Mayor Mike Duggan 04:09
This Stellantis auto plant, the G Plant was probably the best example of that. I went hard after that plant, it was going to be 5000 jobs. Could have easily gone to like a lot of other plants to South Carolina or Huntsville, Alabama, and I made Fiat Chrysler, then now Stellantis a deal. I'll get 200 acres of land, I'll give it to you for $1. I have one thing in exchange. Now, normally that would be, oh, my god, corporate giveaway and all that. I said, I want you to offer Detroiters the jobs first, and we'll produce you a list of qualified Detroiters out of Detroit, to work. At work, the first 4000 hires were all Detroiters, and so people in the city were thrilled. We moved 4000 families to the middle class with $60,000 a year plus benefits for folks with high school degrees were willing to get training and and work hard, and that's what we've tried to do, and that's why I think City Council and the community has been so supportive. If we're going to give a big help to the business, you have a moral obligation to be helping Detroiters when that business develops, and at this point, people have just all bought in.
Bob Riney 05:19
Well, let's take that comment and turn it into an industry that both of us know a lot about, and that's the healthcare industry. You were an incredible leader of the Detroit Medical Center fora number of years, and so really understand the complexities of this business, but also the impact it has on communities, on economies. And as you know and have been very supportive, Henry Ford Health has announced, with partners what's going to be an over $3 billion commitment into the city with so many different aspects. What does this mean to you and what does it mean to Detroiters?
Mayor Mike Duggan 05:55
Yeah, of course. You remember in the early 2000s when I was running DMC and you were effectively running Henry Ford, you didn't have the title, nearly all of our competitors were closing down in the city and building in the suburbs. You guys built a beautiful facility in West Bloomfield, but you invested in the Detroit campus at the same time, and now that everybody else wants to come back to Detroit, Henry Ford is benefiting enormously. But to see the day that we have this kind of investment in healthcare, it means Detroiters have access to the most advanced care. Your research facilities mean that when there's breakthroughs, Detroiters will benefit from them first, not two or three years later. And it does get a little emotional. The other day, I was over at the Samaritan Center on Conner, which you remember as Samaritan Hospital closed down about 25 years ago, and SER took it over.
Announcement 06:50
23 years ago, SER Metro became a partner with Holy Cross Children's Services to establish the Samaritan Center. At the time..
Mayor Mike Duggan 06:58
This was a closed hospital building, and I talked about the fact that on one part of town, we're happy that an abandoned hospital building is being used as a community center. Over here, Henry Ford is putting $3 billion into expanding health care services for Detroiters, and so what your organization has done just means so much for this city. And I continue to believe Michigan’s biggest export isn't cars, it's our young people, but the jobs that you're creating here, particularly on the research side, and the like, you're creating career opportunities, it keeps the best talent in Detroit and Michigan right here.
Bob Riney 07:31
I hope that we're also role modeling the power of partnerships. And as you're well aware, the partnership with the Gilbert Family Foundation allowed us to bring this world renowned Shirley Ryan Ability Lab from Chicago, and our partnership with Tom Gore, Arn Tellem, and the Detroit Pistons, is going to allow us to build 882 multi income housing with park-like and bike-like settings all over the place. Then our partnership with Michigan State University, world class research that's going to attract to your earlier point, talent from all over the world. Partnerships are hard, but if you get the core values aligned, man, the magic can happen.
Mayor Mike Duggan 08:13
And of course, all of those partners are very proud of the role that they're playing. And the Pistons, in particular, which you know, moved in with the medical facility in partnership with you as your neighbor. They didn't just bring the team down, they brought the headquarters down, then they got engaged in the community, we have all kinds of election counting processes that we use the Pistons Center for. That's how deeply involved they are. And this is a great thing. I've been really lucky as the mayor to have so many corporate leaders who love the city of Detroit and have gone above and beyond. Certainly, what's going on right here as an example of that.
Bob Riney 08:55
Now, let's talk about a couple things that still are vexing problems. We've got all this wonderful positive momentum, but again, since we both share a passion for healthcare, the mental health support is improving, but still not what it needs to be, both in traditional healthcare and even in some of the non- traditional aspects. And then homelessness, while it's not as pervasive here as it is, certainly in some other cities, is still an ongoing challenge. What do you see as the path forward?
Mayor Mike Duggan 09:26
Well, those are two different questions. On the homeless side, we've built a billion dollars of affordable housing in the last five years, and you will not see tent cities in the city of Detroit. If somebody is sleeping on the sidewalk or puts up a tent, immediately, our housing outreach team will be there, and we have shelter beds, and we have permanent beds available for everybody. Now, every individual, as you know, may not want to be with us, if it's an addiction issue, a mental health issue, or whatever their situation may be. On the mental health side, this is something I've worked on since I was in Wayne County in the 1980s and I have never seen a system more resistant to accountability. They spend nearly a billion dollars. As any Detroit police officer in any emergency room worker in this citywill tell you, mental health system is not getting the job done. It's our ER workers and it's our cops that end up being on the front line. But with the hiring of James White as the new head of the mental health system, I guarantee you, you are going to see accountability for the money they spend. You're going to see an increase in service over the next four or five years. I think you're going to see first class mental health services in Wayne County. It's going to make your job and my job a lot easier.
Bob Riney 10:40
For those of us that have had the pleasure of getting to know James White, such a perfect fit. I mean, his background of both mental health, social work and policing is an incredible combination to take into a infrastructure that I totally agree with you has been entrenched for a long time.
Mayor Mike Duggan 10:59
When he first wanted to build a real time crime center, and he was an assistant chief and brought me a plan for $2 million and I said, what's the return on investment? And he says, what's that? And I said, What are we going to get for the $2 million, how are you going to deploy it, what crimes are going to go down, and how did you pick $2 million and he said, Well, I thought that's all you might give me. I said, give me a business plan. He came back a month later and laid out a plan on how we would reduce carjackings and shootings, and we built a $10 million center. He's since gotten his MBA at Wayne State, and all of his senior management team have and you think in fighting crime, there's not a return on investment in metrics, but we found a way to measure and change it, of course, as you know, fewest homicides since 1966. People in the mental health field, there's not a way that you can measure performance. And the fact is, you can measure anything, and James White is going to measure it, and he's going to, I have no doubt, fund those who are being successful and not fund those who aren't.
Bob Riney 12:04
In all reality, you know, a lot of us, including myself, have made a lot of decisions to make major investments in the city, in part because there's just been so much confidence in what you have achieved, what you have done and what you stand for. Now that you have decided that it's time to pass the baton to somebody else, how can you assure us that there's going to be resiliency built into everything that's been created? Because, boy, it's all about momentum, and you have been a driver of momentum.
Mayor Mike Duggan 12:37
I have had a lot to do with it. I've had a partnership on Detroit City Council for 11 years. I haven't had a veto enacted on the Detroit City Council. The us versus them politics that defined Detroit in 2013 as a city slid into bankruptcy, the way you got elected was by blaming somebody else, because you didn't anything to point to as an accomplishment, so you got elected by blaming somebody. We've gotten that mentality out of it. Everybody who wins for city council these days talks about what they're going to do constructively. We can disagree, but we're not trying to get elected by tearing somebody else down, unlike what you'd see in in Washington or Lansing, I think you're going to see in the 2025 campaign that continue. I think there's a lot of talent in the city. There is a lot of talent in the cabinet and the department heads in the city of Detroit, there's a lot of talent in the business community and the entrepreneurs in the cities, right? A lot of talent the philanthropic side. And I will be turning over a city that doesn’t have 47,000 abandoned houses, probably has 2000, doesn't have $18 billion in debt and bankruptcy, but in fact, as record surpluses, doesn't have a Packard plant or a Cadillac stamping plant or abandoned AMC headquarters, those are all gone now and converted to properties that are hiring people. And so the next mayor comes in in a very different situation, and the next mayor and council can build on the success we're having, as opposed to trying to tell people that Detroit isn't so bad. After what happened to the NFL Draft, America has seen it, and you've seen it this summer, the visitors every single weekend saying, I haven't been in Detroit in five years, 10 years, or I came down for the draft and I brought my family back. It's very exciting what's happening.
Bob Riney 14:23
It's unbelievably exciting. And you know, for those of us who've been around every once in a while, we're like, we can't go to a restaurant on Saturday because everything's booked, that never used to happen. And then we sort of remind ourselves, this is exactly what we had hoped for, exactly what we wanted.
Mayor Mike Duggan 14:39
I had somebody in from the Biden administration a few months ago, and it was a Monday night, and he's, let's go get to dinner. I went to the place, it was like a half hour wait, and he's like, You got to be kidding. He says, Well, you're the mayor. I said, I'm not cutting in front of all these people. That's not a good way to do it. And he couldn't believe that on a Monday night at a Detroit restaurant, you had to wait to get in. But that's, it's a nice crowd. I was perfectly happy to sit at the bar for half hour and smile at the crowds that were here.
Bob Riney 15:10
You’re going to be running for Governor of Michigan as an independent candidate. And you know, it's a gutsy move. And I know you well, so I know that you have thought this through. What was the inflection point for you?
Mayor Mike Duggan 15:24
Well, yeah, I just am tired of the toxic atmosphere in Lansing. You cannot get anything done everything, because the Republicans and Democrats been so evenly divided for a number of years in the House and Senate, everything is about maintaining control. I can't vote for that. The Republicans will get the majority. I can't vote for that, or will lose the majority. And you watch the governor's frustration. The left wing of the Democratic Party's got it so out of control. The governor just vetoed 13 democratic bills, and I just looked at that and said, We've got to take the toxic partisanship out of it. And I really do think that people of this state are tired of the two party stranglehold on their candidates and would like a third choice. And based on the reaction I've gotten the last month, a lot of people feel that way. And so I'm going to run a campaign that says, If you're happy with the two parties, vote for him if you want to change the way politics in this state is where we work with good people for the Republican and Democratic sides, to deal with the economic strategy this state, to deal with the basic K 12 education in this state, our loss of population in the state. I want to do what I've done in Detroit, which is pull together leadership that works together.
Bob Riney 16:42
The timing is very, very interesting, because there's no question that people are frustrated, and they're frustrated with things they used to align with pretty comfortably, and wondering what's happened at the same time, though, both parties have their machines in place. So how does an independent Governor without the machine of either party build his campaign?
Mayor Mike Duggan 17:06
I think the machines are more myth than reality, and I've been in the middle of the career. But think about this. I ran and got elected mayor of Detroit. It's a non partisan election. There's no party machine. It was a campaign organization I built myself. Think about what happens in a Democratic or Republican primary. There's no party machine. The candidates have their own organizations that are competing for the nomination. So this myth of a machine, you have to build a team of people, and the people change every two and four years. Which kids are willing to out and knock on doors. Which people are are motivated. What the Democratic and Republican parties do bring is, when you become the nominee, the Democratic Governor’s Association, Republican Governor’s Association, will drop $20 million on your election overnight. And so the advantage they have is the National Democratic and Republican money. I've got a year and a half head start where hopefully we'll have significant support behind me and be ready to go in November 2026 when the parties have chosen their nominee.
Bob Riney 18:10
What's the most surprising reactions you've had since you announced walking through the airport?
Mayor Mike Duggan 18:15
It is so interesting. People in southeastern Michigan have always been supportive of me, but when I walk through the airport now strangers, I have their thumbs up, independent. Yeah, I'm tired of these
parties up in that system, and they're people from all over the state. So there's something about the independent candidacy that has captured people's imagination in a way that is beyond even what I expected.
Bob Riney 18:41
I'm just going to ask you one last question. You know, as you think about the state of Michigan, it's incredibly diverse, from the most rural communities to the greater Detroit region, and then you've got the Upper Peninsula, which always sometimes says, hey, don't forget about us. We're a part of the state. What audiences or stakeholder groups are you looking the most forward to presenting yourself to?
Mayor Mike Duggan 19:08
I've been to three different cities in southeastern Michigan today. It is so much fun to learn, but the more I move around, the more I find we have in common. So your friends are talking about my trip to Traverse City. I went by and saw a huge tent city in Traverse City, but their biggest issue is affordable housing. The people who are working their tourist economy in the summer can't afford to live there. And as I talked, I said, Well, let me tell you about a mom in Detroit whose rents are gone up and she needs to have an affordable place to live. The fact of the matter is the math of what it costs to build versus what it costs to pay is a math problem in Traverse City and in Detroit, and we have so much more in common, and by the time we left, we're talking about strategies that would work for all parts of the
state.
Bob Riney 19:59
I continue to be in awe of everything that you have accomplished, and your personal drive, and I'm so thrilled that you took some time out of your busy day to be with me.
Mayor Mike Duggan 20:09
Well, I'm Henry Ford's biggest fans, I'm glad to be here.
Bob Riney 20:12
Can you say I Am Henry?
Mayor Mike Duggan 20:15
You haven't sold me on that brand.
Bob Riney 20:17
Trust me, he is. Thank you so much for being with us. You know, I hope you really enjoyed The BOBcast, and I was particularly taken by this conversation with Mayor Duggan. I've known him a long time, but, you know, I just love his relaxed candor and his advice about how we deal and how he's dealing with the post election processing as a Democratic mayor of a predominantly democratic city was just a great example of reminding us that, you know, we have to take the long view. We don't have to overly dramatize, sometimes the worst case scenarios. We have to be guarded, but we always have to look for what we can do differently, what we can be empowered to do, and how we turn our energy into action whenever something may not be positioned as the way we ideally would like it to be. And I think those lessons are something that maybe we know, but boy, old habits are hard to break, and this was a great way to reinforce that. So I hope you really were as moved by this conversation as I was, and that you take away a couple pearls of wisdom as we all go forward, let's remember this is our time, our moment, and let's seize the day. If you enjoyed this episode, please click follow so you will never miss a future episode. Share us with your friends and leave us a five star rating and review, which will help others find us. If you have suggestions for a topic or a guest, email us at bobcast@hfhs.org. Remember, every action we take today is a step towards the future. We're building together. Let's keep striving, keep believing and keep moving forward. Let's use positive momentum to carry us through an era that's filled with troubling questions. Until next time, take care and keep making a difference.