What happens when one of the nation’s most influential physician leaders becomes a patient himself? In this powerful episode of The BOBcast, Bob Riney sits down with Dr. Bobby Mukkamala, President of the American Medical Association, for a wide-ranging conversation about leadership, resilience, and the future of healthcare in America. From growing up in Flint to leading the largest physician organization in the country, Dr. Mukkamala shares how his journey has shaped his perspective on prevention, physician burnout, and why America spends more on healthcare — yet too often falls short on outcomes. The conversation takes a deeply personal turn as Dr. Mukkamala reflects on his diagnosis with a cancerous brain tumor, the “tumor wisdom” he’s gained along the way, and how humor, humility, and hope have guided him through uncertainty. Together, Bob and Bobby explore what it will take to build a healthcare system that delivers world-class care while never losing its heart.
What happens when one of the nation’s most influential physician leaders becomes a patient himself? In this powerful episode of The BOBcast, Bob Riney sits down with Dr. Bobby Mukkamala, President of the American Medical Association, for a wide-ranging conversation about leadership, resilience, and the future of healthcare in America. From growing up in Flint to leading the largest physician organization in the country, Dr. Mukkamala shares how his journey has shaped his perspective on prevention, physician burnout, and why America spends more on healthcare — yet too often falls short on outcomes. The conversation takes a deeply personal turn as Dr. Mukkamala reflects on his diagnosis with a cancerous brain tumor, the “tumor wisdom” he’s gained along the way, and how humor, humility, and hope have guided him through uncertainty. Together, Bob and Bobby explore what it will take to build a healthcare system that delivers world-class care while never losing its heart.
Time Stamps
Introduction and Background of Dr. Bobby Mukkamala
:00- “For what we spend, it's kind of a no brainer,” jokes Dr. Bobby Mukkamala with Bob Riney
:15- Bob introduces himself as the CEO of Henry Ford Health and host of The BOBCast, highlighting the podcast's focus on Detroit's future and influential voices.
:53- Bob praises Dr. Mukkamala, the president of the American Medical Association (AMA), for his national advocacy in healthcare transformation and his local contributions in Michigan.
2:05- Bob and Dr. Mukkamala discuss the challenges and frustrations faced by physicians, particularly the increasing age at which physicians are retiring.
Challenges and Solutions in Healthcare
3:20- Dr. Mukkamala discusses the frustration among physicians due to administrative burdens and financial stressors, such as the cost of necessary equipment.
3:43- He emphasizes the need for better organization and support among physicians to address these stressors and improve the healthcare system.
4:42- Dr. Mukkamala highlights the inefficiency of the U.S. healthcare system, noting that despite spending almost $5 trillion annually, the country performs poorly in certain metrics compared to other developed nations.
5:16- He suggests a focus on basic healthcare and preventative care to improve overall health outcomes and reduce costs in the long run.
Preventative Care and Healthcare Efficiency
5:41- Bob and Dr. Mukkamala discuss the importance of preventative care and how it can reduce the burden on the healthcare system.
6:12- Dr. Mukkamala argues that investing in preventative care now will lead to better health outcomes and lower costs in the future.
8:05- He shares his personal experience of growing up in Flint, Michigan, and how the city's revitalization efforts have inspired him to contribute to the community.
9:13- Dr. Mukkamala reflects on the love and support he received from his family and community during his battle with a brain tumor, which reinforced his commitment to healthcare advocacy.
Personal Journey and Healthcare Advocacy
10:10- Dr. Mukkamala recounts his diagnosis with a brain tumor in November 2024 and the emotional support he received from his family, community, and Jay Leno.
10:42- He shares his experience of meeting with top neurosurgeons through telemedicine and the importance of having access to specialized care.
10:59- Bob and Dr. Mukkamala emphasize the need for a healthcare system that can provide both expert medical care and personalized attention to patients.
11:44- He discusses the challenges of balancing his roles as a physician, business owner, and community advocate, highlighting the importance of doing what he loves.
Conclusion and Future Outlook
12:19- Bob talks about and the many roles Dr. Mukkamala plays, including being a restaurant owner in Flint.
13:34- Bob reflects on the episode.
14:13- Bob encourages listeners to follow The BOBCast for more episodes featuring influential voices and important conversations.
14:32- The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to take positive steps towards the future and continue striving for a better healthcare system.
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 00:00
For what we spend, it's kind of a no brainer. Well, I shouldn't have said brain when we're talking about my brain too.
Bob Riney :05
Well, a little humor now and then. It's self-deprecating. You know, you can always tell people I lost a filter. I can say what I want.
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala :12
That's true. It is the get out of jail free card.
Bob Riney 00:15
Welcome back to The BOBcast. I'm your host. Bob Riney, President and CEO of Henry Ford Health, and I am thrilled to have you joining us today. The BOBcast is where Detroit's future comes into view. It is where you'll hear the big ideas, bold voices and crucial conversations that are shaping our city, our region, and beyond real and unapologetically focused on creating a stronger, more vibrant future with grit and grace, this podcast introduces you to the relentless visionaries who are driving change and tackling some of the biggest challenges we face today.
Bob Riney :53
Today, we are joined by someone that I have admired for a long time, not just for what he represents on the national stage, but for the kind of physician and leader he has always been here at home in his State of Michigan. Dr. Bobby Mukkamala is the President of the American Medical Association, the largest and most prestigious physician organization in the country. He's a nationally recognized advocate for transforming America's health care system, reducing burden on physicians and improving the health of our communities. And on top of all that, he's an accomplished head and neck surgeon, a small business owner and a true champion for the future of medicine. He understands what it means to care for patients, to support physicians and to build a system that actually works for people. We're lucky to have him as a Michigander, and I'm thrilled to have him with us today, Bobby, welcome to The BOBcast.
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 1:50
Thank you so much.
Bob Riney 1:52
I've been watching and tracking you with a lot of intrigue, because I don't think you're shy of outlining what you believe is the future for healthcare, and the reasons you feel that way. You’re halfway through your one year terms as elected president of the AMA. What are some things you learned and what are you most excited about for the remainder of your time as president?
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 02:05
What I've learned is just the role of a group of physicians with a physician's perspective to accomplish anything in improving healthcare in this country. I hear that frustration every time I have a social event with a group of physicians, and the frustration that they feel about all the things that they're dealing with. And lately, what's most disappointing is that in that group of a dozen physicians just hanging out on the weekend. I'm in my 50s. They're all kind of in their 50s. They're all looking at the age of 60 to stop working, to stop practice, and that's so different than the previous generation. My parents are both retired physicians, and they worked until they couldn't physically work anymore. They just turned 80. They retired relatively recently compared to this generation, organizing physicians in a way that helps them share that stress and share the causes of that stress puts us in a position to solve those causes of stress, whether that's dealing with an insurance company and prior authorization dealing with the finances of being able to stay in practice. Like mine, I have a microscope that I use to look in my patient's ears. Being an otolaryngologist, that microscope I found in the classified ads in 1999 when I finished my residency, and it takes a regular bulb, not an LED bulb, but it works well. I change that bulb probably once a month, and luckily, I can find him cheap on eBay. But that's not how it should be. It should be an amazing led microscope, but the finances of going out and being enamored by one at my professional society meeting but not being able to afford it, those are the kind of things that I think we can work together on to keep us enjoying our practice and not retiring at the age of 60.
Bob Riney 03:55
What are your thoughts on how we can make healthcare more affordable and efficient?
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 04:00
When I look at statistics our country relative to the rest of the world, there are some things that we are amazing at. But when you look at the math and what we spend on healthcare, almost $5 trillion a year, and then the metrics that we use to measure healthcare, how do we do with something like mature. Internal fetal medicine when you're pregnant, you would think that if we spend more than anybody on the planet, we'd be pretty darn good in that statistic, but we are mediocre at best. And so these are the things that I think deserve our attention, and how would we change that statistic? I think it's a motivation to focus on the basics of healthcare, it's an amazing place to come when you have something rare, and you'll see all sorts of publicity advertisements about do you have this come to see us? But if you have stage one, hypertension, pre diabetes, you'll never see that billboard.
Bob Riney 04:59
I go back to a specific statistic, and that's the other developed countries in the world spend on average, 14% on preventative and primary care. Here in the US, we spend about six to 7%. That alone may account for a lot of what you're describing and what you're seeing, I think the challenge is, as president of the AMA with divergent interests and root guards all over the place. How do you affect change?
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 05:31
It's amazing when you can come somewhere and get your cancer cured and there's so much love and tears when somebody leaves the hospital ringing a bell because they survived breast cancer or colon cancer or lung cancer, anything. I just think about the hugs and the crying in a happy way they would get if they found out that the lump that happened to show up on their MRI scan wasn't cancer, and if we can instead change that celebration to I'm healthy, what they thought was something that could be bad, wasn't, let's say it never got to that point you're living healthy. You become used to that there's not a celebration of the changes of statistics.
Bob Riney 06:11
But how do we also celebrate prevention? How do we celebrate the thing that we stopped from happening? How do we celebrate health that brings joy into the physician world and will help with burnout as well.
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 06:24
When we save somebody's life by doing an operation or giving them chemo radiation, it's wonderful, deeply needed, and we shouldn't rob from Peter to pay Paul. I would say it's an investment in prevention, that maybe in a generation, can decrease the consequences of not making that investment, which is that more people will get ill. And so I don't think that we should decrease the attention and the love that we have for curing disease, but we need to make an investment in prevention. And so I don't think that the cost is going to go down anytime soon. An investment is something where your costs go up, but after that investment, after a decade or two, that's when we'll see the return on investment.
Bob Riney 07:11
Tell me a little bit about how growing up in Flint, you know, with its storied history, affected your own view of healthcare and your own motivation for what needs to happen.
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 07:24
My parents moved to Flint, essentially when they were 25 years old, from India, and they're international medical graduates. At that time, in 1970 it was like a red carpet. I remember my dad took a taxi to the hospital when he was doing his residency, had Indian rupees. Couldn't even pay the taxi, and it was late at night, somebody comes out of the hospital, pays the taxi, brings them into the bachelor's quarters, where residents were coming in. It was wonderful, and that's the love of Flint. I owe a lot to that city. I remember growing up in the apartment, basically in the shadow of the hospital, and my mom would go in to make her pediatrics rounds, and there was a little playground outside, and I would be there. And now every Thursday, I walk into that hospital to do surgery, and I look and see where the playground was, of course, now it's a brand new emergency department, but there used to be a swing there, so it's been a wonderful town to me, and that's why I really it's not even an obligation, it's a love that made me come back and everybody that leaves after looking at the revitalization that we're trying to do with restaurants in a downtown that used to be empty at Friday when the courts closed. Now you got to look for a parking spot.
Bob Riney 08:32
You were diagnosed with a cancerous brain tumor in November of 2024.
News report 08:37
In June he was elected the next president of the American Medical Association. By November of 2024 he was living with an eight centimeter brain tumor, not knowing what the future would hold.
Bob Riney 08:48
You know keep a running list of things you've learned since your diagnosis, which you call and I absolutely love this tumor wisdom. What have been your biggest takeaways from this whole experience?
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 09:00
In a day or two of finding out I have an eight centimeter left temporal lobe tumor, when my parents came into town, my kids came into town, we have adult twins, the love that I was feeling, not just from them, but from everybody.
News report 09:12
It's the night before Dr. Bobby Mukkamala leaves his Flint, Michigan home and heads to the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. His mood is calm, even jovial at times. The doctor turned patient is choosing hope over fear. I can genuinely say…
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 09:28
The house that I live in was the president of General Motors home in the 1950s, Harlow Curtice. That's why I have a car collection as well. The day that I got diagnosed with cancer, Jay Leno was scheduled to do a fundraising event before his comedy show in Flint, and he came to my car building.
Jay Leno 09:43
My favorite thing about my website here is that people get to see the cars in motion. Oh, she's starting to get some heat in her now.
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 09:53
It was a bizarre morning, crying in the morning and laughing with Jay Leno in the evening. But life is good, and I'm a lucky guy for that, but I'm just as lucky to be able to have six telemedicine visits with neurosurgeons across the country whose only aspect of their care is working on exactly this kind of tumor, not general brain tumors, but gliomas. And so to have that kind of access within 48 hours, I was like, I'm lucky guy.
Bob Riney 10:18
When faced with something that could be fatal, you want those best in class experts to be able to tap into but you also want to partner with a physician to help you on your health journey in all other aspects. And I think both you and I agree that we need and can build a system that does both in an incredibly effective way.
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 10:41
Absolutely, for what we spend, it's kind of a no brainer. Well, I shouldn't have said brain when we're talking about my brain.
Bob Riney 10:48
Well a little humor now and then. It's self deprecating. You know, you can always tell people I lost a filter. I can say what I want.
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 10:55
That's true. It is to get out of jail free card, for sure. But yeah, I think we can easily accomplish both. When I leave a room and diagnose somebody with head and neck cancer and everybody's emotional, we know the right thing to do, but to accomplish that right thing; one, because there's physician shortage; two, because there's a prior authorization process; three, because that's the most likely thing to cause bankruptcy in this family because of high deductibles for insurance, because the medicine they need is more expensive than if you cross the border into Canada and get the same medication. These are the challenges that lead to us spending more than anybody, and all of those are fixable.
Bob Riney 11:36
In addition to being president of the AMA, in addition to being a very busy practice owner, in addition to being a parent and a spouse and a community advocate, you own restaurants in the Flint area, how do you balance all these balls?
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 11:55
When you do something you love, it just never seems like work, ever. And so when I show give people a tour of downtown Flint that we've been amazing at, I remember coming down here for a tour on a bus to see all the things that were being done in downtown Detroit, and we replicated that in downtown Flint. That's the kind of thing that just doesn't seem like work. So yes, when you give the list, it seems like a lot, but on top of that, what I love about Flint is that it's the birthplace of General Motors before they came down here.
Bob Riney 12:28
It's great to hear your personal journey, your philosophy, your passion for changing an industry while making sure We maintain the heart and soul that has always guided us and has always motivated it. Thank you for being on The BOBcast.
Dr. Bobby Mukkamala 12:46
Oh, thank you. I love the conversation. Appreciate it.
Bob Riney 12:51
You know, I wasn't sure what I expected when I sat down with Dr. Bobby Mukkamala, but boy, oh boy, this has turned into one of my favorite episodes, the fact that he is so comfortable talking about a malignant brain tumor that he had to deal with a year ago, and not feeling like a victim or soliciting any sympathy in any way, shape or form, he's just back to living his life and back to making a difference and back to leading with a sense of purpose. Dr. Mukkamala, he's an impressive individual. If you enjoyed this episode, please click follow so you will never miss a future episode. Share us with your friends and leave us a five star rating and review, which will help others find us. If you have suggestions for a topic or a guest, email us at bobcast@hfhs.org. Remember, every action we take today is a step towards the future. We're building together. Let's keep striving, keep believing and keep moving forward. Let's use positive momentum to carry us through an era that's filled with troubling questions. Until next time, take care and keep making a difference.